Comments on: RedHat v. the Clones http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/ escape colon w q Sun, 07 Sep 2008 00:48:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: felix http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6988 felix Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:05:11 +0000 http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6988 Heh, yeah, it is a sucky situation. Parasitic and a strategy that if successful kills both products. But I don't think Oracle particularly cares about that, if Ellison wouldn't actively love for it to happen he certainly wouldn't mind.... I'm just saying... Heh, yeah, it is a sucky situation. Parasitic and a strategy that if successful kills both products. But I don’t think Oracle particularly cares about that, if Ellison wouldn’t actively love for it to happen he certainly wouldn’t mind…. I’m just saying…

]]> By: Sean Hull http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6987 Sean Hull Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:12:47 +0000 http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6987 I'm gonna blog about this... though I may have to be particularly diplomatic, as I know someone who just joined that team at Oracle. But yes, after some digging yesturday I found out you're completely right, and I find it a little rediculous. How can that be? I mean the source for linux has to remain open, but why their work at packaging things together? Why should their labor *have* to go back into the stream, so folks can mooch off of it? That's hard to stomach. And yep, I did go the MySQL's booth. Take a look, I blogged about it: http://oracleopensource.com/2007/11/12/oracle-openworld-2007-monday-dispatch/ I'll have a "dispatch" for everyday... I’m gonna blog about this… though I may have to be particularly diplomatic, as I know someone who just joined that team at Oracle. But yes, after some digging yesturday I found out you’re completely right, and I find it a little rediculous. How can that be? I mean the source for linux has to remain open, but why their work at packaging things together? Why should their labor *have* to go back into the stream, so folks can mooch off of it? That’s hard to stomach.

And yep, I did go the MySQL’s booth. Take a look, I blogged about it:
http://oracleopensource.com/2007/11/12/oracle-openworld-2007-monday-dispatch/

I’ll have a “dispatch” for everyday…

]]> By: felix http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6905 felix Sun, 11 Nov 2007 22:51:30 +0000 http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6905 Sean, it is my understanding that Unbreakable is actually exactly the same model as CentOS except you pay for guaranteed support. They are simply repackaging RedHat. I would be curious to know if in fact I am mistaken about that or if the model was to start with RHEL and essentially fork into a completely new a separate distro, which would be ok in my book. Most of what I've read looks like what I learned in this article awhile ago: http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7266264422.html I would love to know if this is wrong or outdated. Give MySQL my love at Oracle World. :) Sean, it is my understanding that Unbreakable is actually exactly the same model as CentOS except you pay for guaranteed support. They are simply repackaging RedHat. I would be curious to know if in fact I am mistaken about that or if the model was to start with RHEL and essentially fork into a completely new a separate distro, which would be ok in my book.

Most of what I’ve read looks like what I learned in this article awhile ago:

http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7266264422.html

I would love to know if this is wrong or outdated.

Give MySQL my love at Oracle World. :)

]]> By: Sean Hull http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6903 Sean Hull Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:38:30 +0000 http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6903 PS: Maybe the article's angle should rather be Linux commercial distros versus the free guys, or some such... PPS: I'm at Oracle World fwiw... PS: Maybe the article’s angle should rather be Linux commercial distros versus the free guys, or some such…

PPS: I’m at Oracle World fwiw…

]]> By: Sean Hull http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6902 Sean Hull Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:36:53 +0000 http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6902 Hmmm... When I started reading this I thought it a bit ironic. CentOS is parasitic in a way, but Oracle's rolling their own distro, with their own bug fixes, and patches, not basing off of RHEL as far as I know. So in essence they're doing what RedHat has done, which is to capitalize off of community built Linux, by packaging it, and providing support. Now granted RedHat has a longer history in the community, and probably a bit more Karma on that point, but basically they're competitors to provide support to the freewheeling open-source operating system. Now I'll agree with you that I don't like their marketing tactics to denigrate the very foundation upon which they're building, but marketing has always been fishy. I *DO* encourage competition in the marketplace, so my feeling is go for it. On the other hand I *wouldn't* encourage clients to just jump on Oracle's distro just *because*, as it's often a *good* thing to have multiple vendors to turn to. That can help keep them honest. And as one more dimension to the equation, Oracle's distro is aimed mainly at Oracle folks, for whom it may be an attractive and better option then a general distro enterprise distro for everyone. Just my two cents... Hmmm… When I started reading this I thought it a bit ironic. CentOS is parasitic in a way, but Oracle’s rolling their own distro, with their own bug fixes, and patches, not basing off of RHEL as far as I know. So in essence they’re doing what RedHat has done, which is to capitalize off of community built Linux, by packaging it, and providing support. Now granted RedHat has a longer history in the community, and probably a bit more Karma on that point, but basically they’re competitors to provide support to the freewheeling open-source operating system. Now I’ll agree with you that I don’t like their marketing tactics to denigrate the very foundation upon which they’re building, but marketing has always been fishy. I *DO* encourage competition in the marketplace, so my feeling is go for it.

On the other hand I *wouldn’t* encourage clients to just jump on Oracle’s distro just *because*, as it’s often a *good* thing to have multiple vendors to turn to. That can help keep them honest.

And as one more dimension to the equation, Oracle’s distro is aimed mainly at Oracle folks, for whom it may be an attractive and better option then a general distro enterprise distro for everyone.

Just my two cents…

]]> By: felix http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6866 felix Sat, 10 Nov 2007 16:32:20 +0000 http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6866 Really? Surprising. :( I've had RHEL on several clients for years now, but I've never had occasion to test their support. Hopefully things have changed for the better, though! Really? Surprising. :( I’ve had RHEL on several clients for years now, but I’ve never had occasion to test their support. Hopefully things have changed for the better, though!

]]> By: Michael Natale http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6845 Michael Natale Sat, 10 Nov 2007 02:07:58 +0000 http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6845 RedHat support BLOWS. 6 yrs ago I knew squat about Linux and so when I had to deploy it for work, I insisted on getting paid support. It wasn't too long before I felt I knew more than the "experts", and usually regardless of severity level, it took DAYS for anyone to work on your problem. Bah. RedHat support BLOWS. 6 yrs ago I knew squat about Linux and so when I had to deploy it for work, I insisted on getting paid support.

It wasn’t too long before I felt I knew more than the “experts”, and usually regardless of severity level, it took DAYS for anyone to work on your problem.

Bah.

]]> By: felix http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6841 felix Fri, 09 Nov 2007 22:19:13 +0000 http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6841 Yeah, could very well be working just right for them. It's possible that a tech support-less version of RHEL would drain more clients than CentOS does. Who knows... it's pretty interesting, though. Can't wait to see how the Cloud RHEL does. Yeah, could very well be working just right for them. It’s possible that a tech support-less version of RHEL would drain more clients than CentOS does. Who knows… it’s pretty interesting, though. Can’t wait to see how the Cloud RHEL does.

]]> By: Kirk Unit http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6840 Kirk Unit Fri, 09 Nov 2007 20:57:47 +0000 http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6840 I'm not sure what the right step is for Red Hat. Maybe they should make the OS and the updates completely free and community-mirrored (like Yum) and charge (a lot less, or a la carte) for tech support -- and then focus on selling JBOSS and GFS. Maybe they should pull an Apple and add some closed-source stuff on top of all the open source stuff, but the loyal users would probably rebel. Then again, maybe this model is working exactly as they predicted, and they're comfortable with Fedora and CentOS swimming in the same pool. I’m not sure what the right step is for Red Hat. Maybe they should make the OS and the updates completely free and community-mirrored (like Yum) and charge (a lot less, or a la carte) for tech support — and then focus on selling JBOSS and GFS. Maybe they should pull an Apple and add some closed-source stuff on top of all the open source stuff, but the loyal users would probably rebel. Then again, maybe this model is working exactly as they predicted, and they’re comfortable with Fedora and CentOS swimming in the same pool.

]]> By: felix http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6837 felix Fri, 09 Nov 2007 18:16:26 +0000 http://comments.deasil.com/2007/11/09/redhat-centos-unbreakable/#comment-6837 I think that the guarantee of turn around is what attracts people. That is, the CentOS forums and the internet in general are really great resources but there's no guarantee that anyone in a position to help you actually will. Googling for problems yields no end of 1 entry forum posts with no replies. I think that's the draw of the support contract. You make an interesting point though - I think what RHAT has done is coupled a service with a product. That is, you aren't really paying them yearly for RHEL you're paying them for support and also the bandwidth for their packages (which is much less compelling these days). CentOS should never have come about because RedHat should have packaged up RHEL w/out support and maybe with lower priority access to their bandwidth. This would still be distinct from Fedora since it wouldn't be a community product. I think that the guarantee of turn around is what attracts people. That is, the CentOS forums and the internet in general are really great resources but there’s no guarantee that anyone in a position to help you actually will. Googling for problems yields no end of 1 entry forum posts with no replies. I think that’s the draw of the support contract.
You make an interesting point though - I think what RHAT has done is coupled a service with a product. That is, you aren’t really paying them yearly for RHEL you’re paying them for support and also the bandwidth for their packages (which is much less compelling these days). CentOS should never have come about because RedHat should have packaged up RHEL w/out support and maybe with lower priority access to their bandwidth. This would still be distinct from Fedora since it wouldn’t be a community product.

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